kitchen update # 59 - the countertops were measured today

yesterday i installed the countertop support brackets that ikea suggests for heavier stone countertops. the brackets go on the sides of the cabinets to help support it. the cabinets assemble with two brackets across the front and back of the cabinets. that sight elevation doesnt matter with formica counters, but apparently it does with the added weight.

the blue arrows point to these new support brackets



green arrows here


still need to put the brackets on these last two cabinets, but i'm not pulling the sink til the morning they come to measure, and its only two screws each.


i assembled and installed the drawers for the last two cabinets.

(the top drawer is assembled but wont fit with the old yellow countertop piece hanging down over the edge)

on the day they came to measure, i got up around 9am and started working on the last few things. the guy wasnt supposed to be there until noon so i should have had plenty of time. instead at 9:30 he called and asked if he could come earlier. i didnt even have the sink out yet! i said uh... 10am? then hustled my butt and got it all done with only a few minutes to spare.

i removed the temporary countertops on the stove side, and unhooked the water and drain pipes and removed the old sink. then once the sink was out, i had to install the last two brackets on the top of the sink cabinet to help support the heavier stone countertops. and then i put on the sink cabinet doors.


stove side without the temporary countertops



all the drawers in


sink cabinet doors on. i still wish that pull-out under-sink drawer would have worked, but it just wouldn't fit with the plumbing.


the measuring guy came in with his kid (maybe 6 years old?) introducing him as his assistant for the day (and asked if that was ok, which was fine with me). the kid was quiet and well behaved. played around with the tape measure, eagerly measuring whatever his dad asked him to and reporting the number (which wasnt recorded anywhere, but kept the kid happy thinking he was helping). it was rather cute, the dad doing his job and still keeping the kid busy.

the whole thing took maybe a half hour. he asked me a couple questions for clarification, how far out did i want the countertops to come from the wall, what about the peninsula corners, etc. i specified i wanted them to overhang enough to cover the handles, and asked a few questions of my own.

he had this special nifty measuring machine set up on a tripod. it had a pointer/stylus thing on a very long retracting cable. he reached out and touched points all around the kitchen which pulled the cable out and back. he had a clicker that he pressed each time he had it touching where he wanted it and it beeped and transmitted a precise measurement. besides the cabinets, he also measured/beeped it along the walls to take into account any humps in the wall (i told him about the one big hump i knew for sure).


he made a bunch of extra notations, tapping them into the screen of the measuring machine thing, and then he was done and headed out. that was it.

since heidi is a stranger-danger dog, she spent that time in her crate with a frozen peanut butter kong, happily entertained and not doing her stranger-danger barkbarkbarkbark.

a few hours after he left i was ready to haul the old sink back in and i connected it up again for the very last time.

two more weeks and i should have countertops!

kitchen update # 58 countertops are now ordered!

today i drove down to MSI surfaces and picked out the slab for my countertop and had them put it on hold for me with pacific granite and quartz. then i drove up to pacific and they placed the order. and answered a bunch of my questions.

they'll be coming up on thursday to do the digital measuring to make the template that their computerized waterjet saw will cut out. then tuesday august 6 they'll come to install it.

the guy mentioned that its going to be a tight fit to fit everything in on the slab.

-they have a year warranty on the installation, and MSI surfaces has a limited lifetime warranty on the quartz (that does not include heat damage, which MSI showed me examples of, not that i've ever set hot pans on the counter, having always had cheap formica counters before).
-they've been in the location up by me for 9 years, and in their original eagan location for longer. so they're not new to this.
-he said in most suburbs, mine included, they do not need to apply for permits or inspections because they are not doing anything to the stucture of the house, they're adding a counter on top of the cabinets. some cities do require permits to be pulled, one of which happens to be my parents suburb, thus why my dad suggested this question.
-he explained how the digital templating works and how it maps any humps or unevenness in the walls and their saw cuts that out so it fits exactly. so we dont have to worry about that one hump we know about.
-the guy could not tell me where the seam in the extra long dishwasher/sink/peninsula side countertop will be, he said the template guy is the one who decides that onsite, and would be able to tell me that when he's there measuring.
-they did not have a sample of a seam in a quartz countertop to show me. this was the only negative i found.
-i asked if all the drawers and doors needed to be in? or would they get in the way and should i take them out? (half the kitchen has the drawers in and filled up, the other half does not). the guy said either way is fine since they arent removing old countertops so they wouldnt be leaving that mess behind.
-i asked what if the cabinets arent level enough? i'm a little worried the peninsula cabinets that are screwed to the floor might be just a teeny bit off from the other two cabinets hanging from rail on the wall, and the most logical place to split the countertop is right there. he seemed to think they could shim it, but again said the template guy would have a better answer for me on that.
-i asked about the faucet. they install the undermount sink (which they include for free, so i can return the one i got). they cut as many holes for the faucet as you need (and ask that you have the faucet on side when they come to do the measuring). i asked if they put the faucet in and they said no. they do not connect the plumbing underneath either. they had told me that you have to wait 10-12 hours for all the sink and countertop adhesives to cure before attaching the plumbing. which isnt a problem, i can do that myself. i wanted to clarify about the faucet, that i'll be installing that as well.
-i asked if there would be any other potential extra costs that could pop up and the guy said no, other than potential minor measurement changes that get made when they digitally measure it, which i was already aware of. he did a change of like 1/2 inch deeper on all sections of the countertops and the price changed by $48. minor when the countertops are going to cost $3300.

these countertops are marked at $73 a sq ft. which is within $100 of home depots quartz estimate at $50-58 a sq ft! and within $100 of ikeas quartz estimate at $62 a sq ft! funny how that all works out to be about the EXACT freaking SAME. i had avoided going to a countertop specialty place because i thought they'd be ridiculously expensive. and i didnt initially get an estimate from ikea either because they were charging more per sq ft than the home improvement big box stores. but it turns out each place charges differently. maybe the countertops are less, but they nickle and dime you. the big countertop specialty place didnt do that. and they're the ones doing the measuring and cutting and installing.

so its all picked out and ordered and too late to change my mind. i went with calacatta botanica. (the middle sample)


next i have to start working on figuring out the backsplash. i peeked at some samples at the msi surfaces place and while they're lovely, they're quite expensive. some were marble. $18 a sq ft. i dont think i can afford that. but i need to do some measuring to figure out how much i even need. i have no idea other than a lot.

kitchen update # 57 - choosing countertops, the saga continues

very picture heavy

i went down to MSI surfaces, the warehouse of one of the quartz suppliers i looked at samples of at pacific quartz and granite. MSI surfaces doesnt sell to the public. you have to go to a dealer/installer to buy it (pacific quartz). MSI also does floors, backsplash tiles, and hardscape/outdoor stuff.

i looked around at all their samples, including the big slabs. it is wonderfully different looking at the whole big slabs rather than just a tiny little sample. you get *such* a better idea how it looks.

in the big warehouse area they had all the slabs arranged, and a big overhead crane that picked them up and moved them around. they actually had to tell people not to try to move the 1200 pound slabs themselves. that if you want to pick out your own slab, let them use the crane to move them. apparently some guys have thought they were strong enough to flip thru the slabs like a stack of posters. except they cant, and they had pictures of the broken slabs. (THAT would be an expensive fuck up!) not to mention these slabs are nearly as tall as i am! 5' tall x 10.5' wide (152 x 312 cm).

SO many choices. i zeroed in on just the white and gray ones.

statuary classique


blanca statuarietto


close up of blanca statuarietto


glacier white


close up of glacier white


alabaster white. each slab comes with a protective piece of plastic. some had been peeled off some were only partially peeled off.


alabaster white close up


close up of calacatta botanica



close up of cashmere cararra




then they have a medium room lined with like 5' tall by maybe 2' wide vertical strips of all the samples, all the way around the room. and really good lighting (the light in the warehouse wasnt as bright). there were some tables and chairs too.

cararra marmi


calacatta botanica


fairy white


glacier white


blanca statuarietto


statuary classique, on one of the tables in that room


then there was a little room off that lined with shelves/cubbies filled with samples. little square samples, and larger rectangle samples. so i pulled out little samples of all the ones i was interested in and went back to the medium room and laid em all out on a table side by side to compare. because there were SO freaking many options. so many. omg so many.

blanca statuarietto


glacier white


calacatta botanica


cashmere cararra


fairy white


blanca arabescato


cararra marmi


calacatta venice (you can see the other samples lined up above)



once i had them all laid out, i could see some were more ivory than white and i eliminated them. i was looking at the white ones with gray in them, either thick bands or thinner vein lines or even little squiggles. like i said, SO much to choose from. i went back out to the warehouse slabs multiple times with the samples, comparing a sample of one next to the big slab of another trying to figure out which one i liked more. and i walked around the room looking at the vertical samples and comparing them with the little samples of other ones.

i was there nearly two hours. and happily, they left me in peace to figure it out myself. i could have gone back to the front at any time and asked for help. but they asked when i came in if i knew what i wanted and i emphatically said no! i knew i was looking towards white and gray but that was as far as i'd narrowed it down to. so the guy showed me around and left me in peace and i really appreciated that. people hovering around me make me nervous. and i cant think or make decisions when i'm nervous.

eventually i narrowed it down to four, and then two. then i took the bigger rectangle samples of those two to the front desk and asked how the samples worked. the pacific countertop place told me the samples were free at this MSI place and they were indeed free. they said yes, take them home, see how they look in your house. use them to figure out your tile or whatnot. and when i was done with them, they suggested i could bring the samples back to them, or bring them to the pacific countertop place. so that was really cool.

since this place was down by my parents house, i stopped by there after and showed them the samples. both parents liked both samples and could see the appeal in either one. and mom said she was happy to NOT have to make that decision. she said it took her 6 months to choose curtains she liked for their living room.

now i have the samples sitting in my kitchen. and i still dont know which one i want. hopefully time will help me figure it out. this is what i narrowed it down to. one nice, plain, simple. the other a little busier, less plain.



these are the final two: blanca statuarietto left, calacatta botanica right


blanca statuarietto left, calacatta botanica right


calacatta botanica left, blanca statuarietto right


calacatta botanica left, blanca statuarietto right

kitchen update # 56 - looking at countertops

last thursday i went to ikea and got a countertop estimate and picked up the counter top supports for stone counters that i need to screw in to the sides of the cabinets.

even with having my detailed kitchen plans right in front of her on their computer (because they provided the cabinets according to those specific plans made on their software) she goofed up the estimate and shorted it by one cabinet. for some reason she excluded countertops over the dishwasher and didnt realize til after i left. she left a message for me while i was driving home letting me know, and saying she was mailing out a corrected estimate. it was slightly more than home depot, but pretty close. around $3500 for quartz. estimates have been around 40-44 square feet of countertop. plus backsplash. formica was around $1700.

i looked at their countertops and found two possibilities


this one was also available at home depot




this is the second one






i also looked at some of the home improvement stores and saw these options










saturday i was looking thru the ads that came in the mail and found one for Pacific Granite and Quartz in maple grove. i try to avoid going places on the weekends because theres usually too many people. so today (monday) i went to check them out.

they had so many samples to choose from. so many. and they were very polite and helpful and they knew what they were doing. they did up an estimate for me that included everything (even a free undermount 9" deep stainless steel sink!) and they were happy to print out any other estimates right then and there for any other samples i was interested in. (i figured the one was enough, i need to figure out which one i want first). they also printed me out a price sheet for three of their suppliers for quartz so i could look up anything i saw that interested me. (the other few suppliers were higher end/pricier stuff and i let the guy know i was looking for low-mid range prices, not high-end prices). he told me that two of those companies i was interested in had warehouses locally. one in plymouth, one in shakopee (the third was in canada, the other ones he told me but i didnt pay attention since they were the more higher-end stuff).

the company that had the most samples i was interested in was MSI surfaces in plymouth, so i'm going to stop by there tomorrow and will be able to look at whole slabs to get a better idea of how it'll really look. i like that idea, of being able to see large samples, in person. they told me it will take one whole slab for my kitchen. and that place can send me home with little samples to look at in my kitchen. i debated going today but it was already 2:30pm and i didnt want to be anywhere near highway 169 during rush hour, which i would have been by the time i left there for home. (i try to avoid rush hour almost as much as i try to avoid crowds.)

i really like this pacific granite and quartz place. SUCH a different experience that home depot or ikea or lowes or menards. they knew their shit inside and out. they were happy to let me roam the floor on my own and look around while they did an estimate based off my ikea printout pictures and my measurements.

but better yet, even the low-mid range priced samples they had were far more classy and high-end *looking* than the ones in the home improvement stores and ikea.









some questions i didnt think of
-how do they handle a hump in the wall/uneven walls?
-are there any other possible costs not included in the estimate? (other than potential measuring differences/size outcomes)
-do i need to have all the doors and drawers in the lower cabinets, or do they need me to have all that cleared out for ease of installation?
-what if the cabinets are not level enough?
-will they attach the top front of the dishwasher to the underside of the countertop since i cant just screw in that clip like on a formica counter?

and dad cut the boards for the filler piece above the stove 1/16th inch shorter for me on his table saw and then i glued a 2x4 to the back and screwed the end pieces on. (well technically 2 2x2's because thats what i had on hand in the garage to cut up). now its tucked in above the cabinet over the stove. i'm still not sure if is right yet. i need to do some cabinet door adjusting first.